No locker?!

 

 

😁 😁 😁 😇 😇 😇 😇 😇 😍😍😍😍😍😭😭😭😭🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🤩🤩🤩🤩

 

478 miles 👀👀

Now where's the TB4?

 

478 miles with a 2” lift on 35’s?! Does anyone think this will have more real world range than a 2024 4WT?

It seems that is does…I wonder where they are finding these massive efficiency gains.

 

"said Joe Roy, chief engineer for Silverado EV "

So Nicole Krantz (sp?) is on to greener pastures.

 

She was replaced by Kathy Gillespie (Who also is the lead for the Celestiq) then looks like Joe is a recent replacement. Joe was the Chief Engineer for GM's Autonomous vehicles.

 

That's a lot of promotions and already in management. She's got the relaxed manner that makes for promotion so no surprise. This will continue until the Peter Principle kicks in, which is you get promoted to the level of your incompetence 😅 It's true actually ...

I made top tier engineering but never management despite a few tries, I made the mistake of being too good an engineer. Avoid being a good engineer if you want promotion, good ones are too valuable to lose so if you want to rise in the ranks you have to kind of suck as an engineer.

 

I was watching the dirt ride for wind tunnel aero performance, the dust giving visuals.

40s mark
You can‘t tell from the still but if you watch the sequence it sure looks like it’s reforming those air streams from the bed and the bottom. Certainly I’m not seeing much turbulence in general

35s mark
Looks like low turbulence right behind the truck which is what you want. This shot is picture perfect, that dirt stream off the back is so perfect it almost looks like an artist created it for a aniumation. Notice how much it looks like contrails, which form from the highly aerodynamic airplane wing/engine

37s mark
If you watch the sequence you see the dirt kicked up by the front tire doesn’t get sucked under the truck which would mess with that flow presumably, instead it just quietly is outside the envelope. Also clearly shows low turbulence off the back

At 57s the angle clearly shows the surface turbulence getting kicked out of the way as you’d want. And fascinatingly the kick off is pretty much the same no matter the steering toe out/in, he does some turns but it doesn’t really affect this part

The acceleration at the end shows it better as the tires dig in and kick off more dirt. Interesting in that it appears like it’s the front motor doing all the work with the back little changed 🤔
You can also see the truck rear up - notice the back well is squatting

56s mark
Dirt pulled up by the tire is in a quiet zone, it just kind of drifts off, not a lot of turbulence in that wheel well it seems which is what you want - it’s not getting turbulence from the outside

Even in the macho money shot notice all that manly dirt clouds are just from the tires banging through that loose stuff, the ambient clouds the truck is driving through are relatively undisturbed. The messy lower section is just from the impact of the tires hitting mounds of fine sifted dirt, but look at that ambient along the top - beautiful! Also I think we get a hint of the sail action

Anyhow this isn’t remotely definitive, and may not be unique to the SEV. I looked for other truck dirt videos but didn’t see anything comparable. Maybe some interesting clues though

 

I was watching the dirt ride for wind tunnel aero performance, the dust giving visuals.

40s mark
You can‘t tell from the still but if you watch the sequence it sure looks like it’s reforming those air streams from the bed and the bottom. Certainly I’m not seeing much turbulence in general


35s mark
Looks like low turbulence right behind the truck which is what you want. This shot is picture perfect, that dirt stream off the back is so perfect it almost looks like an artist created it for a aniumation. Notice how much it looks like contrails, which form from the highly aerodynamic airplane wing/engine

37s mark
If you watch the sequence you see the dirt kicked up by the front tire doesn’t get sucked under the truck which would mess with that flow presumably, instead it just quietly is outside the envelope. Also clearly shows low turbulence off the back

At 57s the angle clearly shows the surface turbulence getting kicked out of the way as you’d want. And fascinatingly the kick off is pretty much the same no matter the steering toe out/in, he does some turns but it doesn’t really affect this part

The acceleration at the end shows it better as the tires dig in and kick off more dirt. Interesting in that it appears like it’s the front motor doing all the work with the back little changed 🤔
You can also see the truck rear up - notice the back well is squatting

56s mark
Dirt pulled up by the tire is in a quiet zone, it just kind of drifts off, not a lot of turbulence in that wheel well it seems which is what you want - it’s not getting turbulence from the outside

Even in the macho money shot notice all that manly dirt clouds are just from the tires banging through that loose stuff, the ambient clouds the truck is driving through are relatively undisturbed. The messy lower section is just from the impact of the tires hitting mounds of fine sifted dirt, but look at that ambient along the top - beautiful! Also I think we get a hint of the sail action

Anyhow this isn’t remotely definitive, and may not be unique to the SEV. I looked for other truck dirt videos but didn’t see anything comparable. Maybe some interesting clues though

This is without a tonneau...the benefit of the sails and roof spoiler. Would love to see something like this for the AT4.

The dust kicked up from the rears may just be hidden by what comes of the front tires. Or, as the truck pitches up the fronts slip a bit in the dirt.

As I mentioned in the other thread, it rocks in this color.

No mention of lockers.

 

The Tire looks like a Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT @flyinglow

Here’s the lettering and tread more clearly

So I believe this then is the tire, except the tread isn’t the same. Maybe an EV variant or something.

https://www.goodyear.com/en_US/tires/wrangler-territory-at-light-truck/24365-73330083800000.html

 

The Tire looks like a Goodyear Wrangler Territory AT @flyinglow

So I believe this then is the tire, except the tread isn’t the same. Maybe an EV variant or something.

To be expected.

 

More aero prn from the back, there’s really little turbulence back there

 

I know GM is now using SiC in the inverters. They talked about it with the Blazer EV SS.

 

I know GM is now using SiC in the inverters.

You mean they weren't previously?

 

What is hydraulic rebound control? How is that different from a shock absorber?

I would have guessed a hydraulic bump stop except they only comes into play on bound, not rebound. Could it be adaptive shocks with adjustable rebound valving?

 

You're the shock expert not me in the slightest but I wonder if they're using this now?

General Motors Magnetic Ride Control

Magnetic Ride Control (MRC or MagneRide) is a General Motors chassis and suspension technology that adapts and adjusts the shock absorbers of a vehicle in real-time in response to changes in terrain in order to deliver optimal shock damping for the best possible driving experience.

Been around for a while but according to AI search has not been on the TB, which instead 'features a Z71 suspensions package with factory lift and Rancho shocks".

Given the weight of this vehicle the ICE suspension probably won't work, but maybe this system would be the treat. Slamming 9k lbs over potholes would need something special to keep from slamming around I'd think.

 

478 miles on the 3TR.....WOW.... Riptide 3TR on order already....glad I pulled the trigger. Waiting on dealer to give me approx delivery date.

 

That'll be 525 miles easy on the road, just drive like me 😅

 

LOL I look forward to getting 525 then. Im not much of a speed demon anymore. 0-60 runs I still enjoy, but I'm usually within 5mph of the speed limit.

 

I think around 520 was the record going 100% to zero but with a lot of 70 mph. I actually think getting - who knows - 530+ should be possible with under 60 and a bit of hypermiling. I don't know why the YouTubers aren't trying this, seeing how high they can get, it would make a great video. They just run and gun. The first one to get 550 miles would be a big splash.

 

Not a youtuber but have 35" and willing to go for that drive!

 

Great product. Could be my next truck. Max 478mi is amazing, but honestly if the cost savings is there, that 410 is getting close to my current 440, I think I'd be comfortable sacrificing 30mi of ranch of $5-10k in savings.

The issue I'm having, and picked up from looking into the LT's, is that there will surely be some kind of package you'll be forced into for the Super Cruise which is a must for me. That means that it will still be $80k, and not enough savings to come off my Sierra EV. Just need SuperCruise/Lane Center on a $72k or less pickup. With Tax credit, only Ford and Tesla offer this at the expense of range. My Whack-A-Mole game for the perfect truck continues.

 

Super Cruise:

1. Included and only available with (SW4) Premium Package.

 

Thanks Nebula... it's just soooooooooooooooooooooo annoying. I don't need 22's, I don't need mid-gates, etc etc... please please GM just give us the tech. If I end up in a Tesla CT, if and when they increase range, it will be because of stuff like this. Actually, the Lightning Flash package comes with Blue Cruise capability for $67k pre-tax credit; how does GM choose not compete in this space.

Sorry guys, I know this is repetitive. 😒

 

Also with those 22”/24” one concern for me is road noise, I’m not fond of the short sidewalls they have on the Bolt which gives too much road feel and noise.

You guys know from my blathering that I was long planning the Max LT, but damn if the off roadies aren’t compelling packages. Knowing the range just seals the deal. Only - the only downside for me is no underbody wheel storage. I’ll have to keep a spare in the bed. But totally worth it since the tradeoff is lots of sidewall cushion, AT and doesn’t hurt range enough to matter.

 

Only - the only downside for me is no underbody wheel storage. I’ll have to keep a spare in the bed. But totally worth it since the tradeoff is lots of sidewall cushion, AT and doesn’t hurt range enough to matter.

When was the last time you had a flat? I buy quality tires and it has been 30 years or so - lack of a spare isn't a big concern for me. With the 24s it might have been but with 35" tires on 18" wheels not really.

 

Why does this spec list show Trail Boss turning circle as 42 ft (same as RST/Denali) where another set of specs showed the AT4 at 39? Unlikely TB/AT4 would be different. Or is it that the shorter turning circle is only in Terrain Mode?

Am really impatient to have real world reviews so these sorts of inconsistencies get cleared up.

 

Silverado Rear, Hummer Front/Silverado Front, Hummer Rear

Front Motor teardown:

 

Front Motor teardown:

<Munro boys>

Watching Munro videos always hurts, production wonks criticizing every weld and machining turn makes me want to cry 😅 It's like they think an engineered product is just about the lowest level of production efficiency, when it's much, much much more to consider.

Bean counters basically, it's like the food companies that say "aw damn you know cane sugar is marginally more expensive than high fructose corn, let's use the latter everywhere". Or another one they do "hey you know stopping the production lines for maintenance is costing money, but if we put more oil into the material (e.g. what you eat) then it'll naturally grease the machines and we can keep them running 24/7".

Manufactured food is such garbage in the US because of this this kind of production efficiency thinking; it's a disease and I'm thankful when I see a company like GM not succumb to it. Sure - make production as efficient as you can but don't obsess about it, make your margins other ways. This is why I have a bone to pick with Tesla - sure they produce cars cheap, big deal, but it's the same damn car year after year. Do not ever tell me that's better.

On this one I wish they did the video more like the Weber Auto channel where you can see it semi-assembled. Again a couple of wonks looking with a microscope.

 

There was a patent application a while back for interlocking the diffs on axles with motors on each wheel. For now, you are better off in off-road/limited traction situations having one motor per axle since, in that case, full power can be transferred to the wheel with traction with mechanical lockers. With separate motors for each wheel, e-lockers mean the wheel with traction is limited to the power of that wheel's motor and can even get less as the electronics try to match power to both wheels but are limited by the one with less traction.

 

With separate motors for each wheel, e-lockers mean the wheel with traction is limited to the power of that wheel's motor and can even get less as the electronics try to match power to both wheels but are limited by the one with less traction.

Had to think about this for a bit, I think there’s a problem with that logic; it’s actually backwards. With one motor and two wheels on a flat surface, each wheel gets half the total power delivered. With a motor on each wheel, in total there’s twice the power. There’s always more power with more motors.

OK so other extreme is one wheel off the ground. It’s the same for single locked diff or dual motor - there’s only one operational motors with the total power in either case. Either the in air motor is off, or the diff only delivers to the traction wheel.

So you’re talking here about some middle ground where the two motors are trying to match power somehow? Like say there’s a side with slip, so it lowers the power output to that side to keep traction. Here the motors aren’t matched, they’re deliberately using different power levels to maintain traction.

So not seeing what the idea is here …

 

Hummer rear dual motor motor, duplicated ports for the two motors

Hummer/Silverado Front, Hummer version has a locking diff. Presumably the diff is built in like the housing? Looks like it would be on the left side output from this picture. If so then a variation.

Silverado back has a diff too, and will probably have a locker if it has any at all.

Now for the interesting question; what if the lockers are already built in but neutered? With low BOM lines like this it’s pretty common to just include dead hardware you neutered out for options, cheaper than having different variations. And would already be the case as the Hummer front uses the locker, with the non TB/AT4 SEV’s having them neutered 👀

 

Hummer rear dual motor motor, duplicated ports for the two motors

View attachment 5508

Hummer/Silverado Front, Hummer version has a locking diff. Presumably the diff is built in like the Bolt? Looks like it woudl be on the left side output from this picture. If so then a variation.

View attachment 5509

Silverado back has a diff too, and will probably have a locker if it has any at all.

Now for the interesting question; what if the lockers are already built in but neutered? With low BOM lines like this it’s pretty common to just include dead hardware you neutered out for options, cheaper than having different variations. And would already be the case as the Hummer front uses the locker, with the non TB/AT4 SEV’s having them neutered 👀

It would be cool to be able to turn on a locker with an aux switch if we could enable on an existing truck!

 

Just to drive you guys nuts, here's the locker, two plates with intermeshing ratchets, the actuator is in the lower right corner

Partially assembled, actuator is on the final drive housing, diff with ratchets on the left, you can see how the plastic alignment pins (surely with a metal pin center, the plastic is probably for wiggle) go through the housing on the right under the actuator. It presses on these to push against a spring (probably) and lock against the diff which is in that housing.

The rotational force on that ratchet must be pretty low with the diff gears taking the load, however the statics of it works.

 

The theory no lockers on Silverado? Maybe on AT4?

 

The Trail Boss and AT4 will be kissing cousins. If one doesn't have lockers, the other most likely won't. If GM follows ICE truck pattern, lockers and expensive trick shocks will be reserved for ZR2/AT4X options. Those aren't in the most recent order guide so my guess is we have to wait even longer.

 

I thought the GM rep said the trailboss would have lockers a couple years ago? I think it was a TFL video with the female product manager or something.

 

It was the chief Silverado EV engineer Michelle Kraatz. Things change. Back then the ZR2 and AT4X were separate trim levels in the ICE range. Then they made them option on the Trail Boss/AT4.

I don't imagine the lockers add too much to the cost other than being relatively low volume. The DSSV shocks, however, as factory aftermarket kits for ICE trucks cost over $3k.

We are going to have to wait for reveals but the order guide has nothing on lockers or shock absorbers.

 

Except for - as I mentioned above - the EV's are more fully optioned with a smaller trim lineup than the ICE's (they already dropped the RST). To get into the TB/AT4 you're spending some serious bucks compared to the ICE versions, a locker costs nothing, dumb move IMO if they leave them off. Plus there's price compression, a ZR2 would have to be back up at $100k for what, some fabric, zippier shocks and lockers? Not even to mention the competition (CT and Rivian) already have them ...

From AI

2025 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 ZR2 starts at $70,995. The price can go up to $79,435 depending on options and trim levels. For example, the 2024 model starts at $71,895 and can go up to $80,335

Lockers, it'll have to have them or be the marketing dumb logic move of the century 😅

 

Lockers, it'll have to have them or be the marketing dumb logic move of the century 😅

We can only hope. With GM's drive to simplify their Bills of Materials and the Hummer going down the same production line, wouldn't they standardize the drives for all the EV trucks. The Hummer dual motor has mechanical lockers so it should be a breeze to include lockers on the SEVs. As you say, it would be a dumb marketing move not to but the pencil pushers might want to soak us for more money as ZR2/AT4X options. Even if so, why not make those available now?

I am still scratching my head as to what "hydraulic rebound control" might be.