[Ch-EV-y]

Polestar took a survey of 5,086 American drivers in January and found that 55% of their respondents bought an EV "for reasons other than environmental benefits".

When you decided you wanted to order a Silverado EV, was the environmental impact of owning an EV the main factor or was it something else. It was certainly up there for me but I think the long term savings of paying for electricity compared to gas was a main one too.

Cast your vote in the poll and if the environment wasn't your main reason, what was?

Polestar Cars Finds Majority of US Drivers Don’t Purchase Electric Vehicles for Environmental Reasons

Polestar, the Swedish premium electric performance car brand, has conducted research that has found that 55 percent of US drivers purchase electric cars for reasons other than environmental benefits. In-vehicle technology, seamless connectivity and infotainment system offerings have been named...

media.polestar.com

• New survey reveals 55% US drivers purchase an electric car for reasons other than environmental benefits
• Almost half of respondents are open to buying an electric car from a new brand, many more than with a gasoline powered vehicle
• Generational differences affect rationale for electric car purchase

MAHWAH, N.J. (July 26, 2022) – Polestar, the Swedish premium electric performance car brand, has conducted research that has found that 55 percent of US drivers purchase electric cars for reasons other than environmental benefits. In-vehicle technology, seamless connectivity and infotainment system offerings have been named as the most important decisions for consumers switching to an electric car from an internal-combustion vehicle.

“The idea of luxury being defined by what’s ‘under the hood’ has been replaced in the electric era with the prioritization of seamless connectivity, integration into existing digital ecosystems, and good UX design,” said Gregor Hembrough, Head of Polestar North America. “People are switching to electric cars for more than just environmental reasons, and Polestar’s focus on in-vehicle technology means they can have everything they want in an environmentally friendly package.”

 

[NutsnBolt]

I said yes to environmental reasons, but only because there was no in-between option. I have a Chevy Bolt and appreciate the fact that it's not spewing noxious gasses when in use -- or wasting energy producing heat. But, as important to me is the pleasure of driving the EV. I also have a solar system, so fuel is "free" much of the year.

I also need a vehicle for towing and hauling medium-size loads, and I think the Silverado will do that nicely. I'm currently using either the Jeep Wrangler or Ram 2500 pickup for those chores.

 

[2kwik4u]

I'm in the market, in the timeframe of delivery, for a pickup. Being an EV or helping the environment are somewhat secondary considerations for me. I really just like the truck. I liked the Avalanche when it was around (almost bought one a couple of times), and this is the logical successor to that. It has 4WS, Mid Gate, and Air suspension. All features I want in a pickup that I can't get elsewhere. Being an EV is neat, but it's about 4th or 5th down the list of why I wanted this truck, and why I reserved one. I tow short distances, have a camper that is parked, and need a pickup bed for doing "truck stuff" on a semi regular basis. This particular truck happens to be really nice, have the features I want, and being an EV is a nice bonus.

Why this EV truck is the one......well, the 200kWh-ish pack size gets me to/from the lake with the boat on a single charge (assuming an 850Whr/mi usage while towing). Rivian is a close second choice for me, but I'm nervous about the lack of service centers, and general "first vehicle from a manufacturer" issues (which appear to be rather few), also teh 135kWh pack is a slimmer margin of reserve as I tow through a charging desert to/from the lake.

I live on the KY-IN state line. About 95% of my energy comes from burning coal. Whether I use that energy in a house, or in a car is of little significance to me, it's all "less clean" than I would prefer. If there is an environmental benefit to moving from my current Audi Q7 to an EV pickup, it's going to be marginal at best, and isn't even in the top 10 reasons to get it.

 

[Holeydonut]

It's unlikely being environmental friendly is the sole reason people buy EVs. Anything complicated always happens for myriad reasons; and asking someone what was their key motivator isn't very useful. This isn't like asking someone why they just hit McDonalds to get a hamburger... where the key decision driver for that purchase is going to be "because I was hungry." Buying a car has hundreds of factors.

It makes more sense to just consider the general trend that EVs provide, and realize being eco is just part of the trend.

The environment is becoming more and more polarizing. Those at one extreme that deny human-influenced-climate-change will do whatever it takes to avoid adopting green products... since doing so would be inconsistent with their beliefs that humans aren't harming the environment.

Then you have those early adopters that want to be able to boast how they're at the cutting edge of saving the Planet. These people have been buying EVs for years well before Polestar was a thing.

But the masses; they simply want to move the needle a bit. They still want their normal quality of life (towing a boat, enjoying a tech-rich UX, getting the kids to school, and going on road trips). And if they can get that while being a bit more green, that's cool.

BTW @2kwik4u, the easiest solution (I said easy, not cheap) for your coal situation is to install some solar panels... then configure your future EV Truck and wall-charger to take energy in during sun-up. So you bank your own solar production instead of exporting excess energy to the grid. There are a ton of companies that have this tech right now (SolarEdge, Tesla to just name a few) ... it's not a pipe dream.

I charge my Model 3 exclusively from rooftop solar generation. The more sun, the faster it charges. So, you can easily tell folks that you're charging your own car with your own clean energy instead of using coal... all while becoming more energy independent for your normal home energy loads as well. The return on investment/payback for you is less since your coal-fired electricity is so cheap in Kentucky. But if you're looking more at principles than payback, it's definitely a possibility.

 

[Flapjacks]

Like others said, it’s a very complicated answer. We bought our first Bolt for environmental reasons (wife is an environmental lawyer), and our second one because the first was so enjoyable and affordable to drive. I’ll be buying the Silverado EV because I want a truck and want the same enjoyment that EV driving offers, and we’ve committed to only buying EVs from now on for environmental reason.

 

[HawaiiEV]

I’m in it for the new avalanche and free mileage since I have solar. Some of the technology stuff makes me hesitate, but it does seem GM has a pretty good system going if LG got their pouch cells straightened out. If the truck wasn’t going to pay for itself because of solar I would wait until solid state batteries come out and EV tech is fully sorted including public charging. I know that in 10 years EVs will be significantly improved and ready for all as primary vehicles.

 

[tsuintx]

Main reason? Nope. Whether electric vehicles are actually environmental friendly in the end can be and is being argued both ways ad nauseam, anyway. I'm not participating in that with my selection. I just buy it because I like the technology and want to see how it performs. And I will still keep my other truck, anyway, so there go any environmental reasons. 😁

 

[2kwik4u]

@Holeydonut You're exactly right. I could (and probably will) move to a solar + battery system for the house. Uncle made that move awhile back for his house in the mountains. Financial payoff will be in the 10-15yr range, but he counts the lack of cashflow required to keep the lights on between now and then a larger plus than the initial cash outlay. Electric bills in the $10-$25 range each month are much easier to handle going into retirement than the $150-$200 range he had before solar installation.

I think I'm going to pull my Rivian Reservation, and just wait on the Silverado. Rivian looks like a great truck and all, but the service issues seem to be mounting on them, and there are a couple features I just can't get past NOT liking. My Q7 should last me into early '24 assuming GM can keep on schedule with production, and being an early reservation holder actually means I get an early spot in line.

 

[SilverDan]

I have 10kW of solar, another BEV (Bolt), house is converted to electric, we zero out on all our energy use, I'm vegan, and I don't care any supposed environmental benefits.

Not because I don't care about climate change - I was following it when I was a physicist in the 90's. At the time was working in Japan which talked about it daily in the Japan Times (whereas it was News Blackout in the US). But the reality is that carbon calculations are difficult and depend on too many boundary conditions. Basically we have to - en-mass - go carbon neutral for it to work. Individuals taking action is largely ineffectual in my view. Well there's a marginal effect sure, but it has to be done as a nation, and unfortunately we've got Ostriches trying to ignore reality. But reality has a way of becoming real, so it'll happen.

 

[Holeydonut]

I have 10kW of solar, another BEV (Bolt), house is converted to electric, we zero out on all our energy use, I'm vegan, and I don't care any supposed environmental benefits.

Not because I don't care about climate change - I was following it when I was a physicist in the 90's. At the time was working in Japan which talked about it daily in the Japan Times (whereas it was News Blackout in the US). But the reality is that carbon calculations are difficult and depend on too many boundary conditions. Basically we have to - en-mass - go carbon neutral for it to work. Individuals taking action is largely ineffectual in my view. Well there's a marginal effect sure, but it has to be done as a nation, and unfortunately we've got Ostriches trying to ignore reality. But reality has a way of becoming real, so it'll happen.

I think it's worse than ostriches... because someone burying their head in the sand and pretending to be ignorant is just exercising their constitutional right to be hedonistic and selfish.

The problem lies with agents who gain political power and gain economic power by fighting efforts to reduce mankind's environmental impact. There are politicians whose platform and war chest lean very heavily on giving a voice to the ostriches and empowering businesses to increase carbon emissions.

Because the two party system inherently produces a "winner" and a "loser", American politics will never allow policies that result in mutual benefit for all. Any time one of the parties "wins", then the other party has to stoke the flames of hatred and decry such policy as having caused a "loss." This means any time there is progress to reduce mankind's environmental impact, there are people out there that actively push in the other direction to undermine the progress.

 

[WXman]

There is no environmental benefit. That's been gone over ad nauseum. The main reason for buying an EV truck is to save money vs. an ICE truck just like it. i.e., you paid the same MSRP but now you don't have to buy gasoline or diesel fuel.

Well, with news that prices on EVs are going WAY up again due to "materials increases" that just went out the window. Ford jacked up Lightning prices as much as $8,500 per truck. I'm sure GM is going to backtrack on the $39,900 Silverado EV too by the time it ever comes to market. So, if these EVs are sitting on lots for $75,000 what's the point? I can buy a new ICE truck, save $25k, and have no range anxiety.

 

[SilverDan]

There is no environmental benefit. That's been gone over ad nauseum.

And doesn't mean much really, people argued ad nauseum whether the earth was flat once too.

Good test of an idea is to drive it to an extreme. Imagine two cases

• 1890 when the majority of energy generation was coal. Then, as today in China, the day-to-day environmental impact is obvious, not to mention the long term imact
• Imagine say 50 years from now when the vast majority of energy generation is renewables. The energy cost of producing goods is environmentally irrelevant if it's via solar/wind/etc, and all that's needed is electricity and raw inputs, and we employ responsible disposal/recycling.
  • Don't bring up minor points like tire wear, batteries are in the process of getting lighter, give it 10 years

ICE can only run fossil fuels (ignoring hydrogen ICE which could be produced via renewables cracking water for H), and are polluting in both production and consumption, which is not the case for electrical->electrical generation->consumption.

prices on EVs are going WAY up again due to "materials increases"

Temporary, too much competition in the auto market for that to last. They're bleeding the early adopters for as long as they can get away with it, China EV OEM's are hungry and right on their tails (and making some great cars by the looks of it). Only thing keeping them out of the US is politics.

 

[Holeydonut]

There is no environmental benefit. That's been gone over ad nauseum. The main reason for buying an EV truck is to save money vs. an ICE truck just like it. i.e., you paid the same MSRP but now you don't have to buy gasoline or diesel fuel.

Well, with news that prices on EVs are going WAY up again due to "materials increases" that just went out the window. Ford jacked up Lightning prices as much as $8,500 per truck. I'm sure GM is going to backtrack on the $39,900 Silverado EV too by the time it ever comes to market. So, if these EVs are sitting on lots for $75,000 what's the point? I can buy a new ICE truck, save $25k, and have no range anxiety.

What article(s) are you reading that says EVs have no environmental benefit for anybody? Yes, the up front carbon impact for EVs is higher during manufacturing and the supply chain. But over the life of the vehicle, the environmental impact for many drivers are hard to dispute. It'll help others reading this thread to get better educated on the matter.

Here's some material from the EPA. But maybe you don't trust the Federal EPA because of politics and stuff with the current administration.

Electric Vehicle Myths | US EPA

Facts and myths about electric vehicles.

www.epa.gov

Here's a link on CNBC. But maybe you don't trust NBC because they are more left leaning than say the Wall Street Journal which is owned by Murdoch.

Are electric cars 'green'? The answer is yes, but it's complicated

Electric vehicles have surged in demand, and hit a record number last year as more and more people turn to battery-operated cars.

www.cnbc.com

So here's WSJ on the topic; where they do see long term benefits of EVs vs Petrol:

Are Electric Cars Really Better for the Environment?

EVs produce fewer emissions overall than their gas-powered counterparts, but there are caveats

www.wsj.com

Many anti-EV outlets cite NBER research from 2015 that proudly claimed that EVs charged from the grid weren't much better than gasoline vehicles outside of metro areas. But here's the latest NBER working paper on the matter (2021). Read the study for yourself and realize many drivers could see a benefit going with an EV.

https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w29093/w29093.pdf

If you're too busy to read that PDF, here's the NBER chart summarizing the benefits of EV vs petrol for a Ford Focus EV (one of the worst EV examples you can find out there). If you take a well engineered Tesla Model 3 vs a BMW 3 Series, the dots all drift to the right.

But here's the rub of the anti-EV crowd. They assume a carowner/homeowner is charging the vehicle from the super-dirty grid. All a savvy EV buyer has to do is add solar panels to their roof and charge with their own clean energy. This is discussed many places on this forum and pretty much any EV forum. If a driver uses renewable energy generation to charge an EV, it will put every point to the right of that red line even if someone wants to factor in the production of the solar panels and disposal of those panels. Constructing and decommissioning a fossil fuel fired power plant also has a massive carbon impact; which for some reason is rarely discussed by the fossil fuel energy companies.

The win-win for everyone is to get the grid almost entirely on renewables; then put everyone in the most efficient vehicles possible. But since neither of those is happening fast enough due to the old-school energy lobby, EVs are a good intermediate step for many of us.

Edit: some typos.

 

[SilverDan]

What article(s) are you reading that says EVs have no environmental benefit for anybody?

Beautiful post, I was too lazy to dig all that out, thanks for doing it.

But here's the rub of the anti-EV crowd. They assume a carowner/homeowner is charging the vehicle from the super-dirty grid

Precisely.

We've got 10k solar, one (soon to be two EV's), a house converted to electrical except central heat (heat pumps are still too expensive), don't fly, are vegans and so our energy budget balances out mostly I think. Additionally our city utility plan is 30% guaranteed renewable, but being in California is often more than that as the renewables start pumping in electrons into the main system. LIke I said earlier, yeah we're eco freaks but honestly we do all this ultimately because it's just plain better.

The win-win for everyone is to get the grid almost entirely on renewables

It's inevitable, just needs a little more time. The fossil age is over (but will never disappear, we still get energy from the Wood age for example). Saudi Arabia's most recent electrical plant was solar, for the only reason that it is cheaper to install and run. This is in the oil capital of the world - the economics are already on renewables. We just need better storage (what's going on with Flow batteries?)

 

[HawaiiEV]

Don’t bother arguing with him, he’s not buying the truck and is not open to changing his thinking. Which is fine. Truth exists somewhere in between.

 

[Holeydonut]

Don’t bother arguing with him, he’s not buying the truck and is not open to changing his thinking. Which is fine. Truth exists somewhere in between.

I don't want to debate WXman, but I do want lurkers and people who see this thread to realize his blanket statement of "no environmental benefit" is were patently false and misleading. Naturally there are still people who defy human-influenced climate change and the shape of our planet. I doubt my links are going to sway any of those folks to come around. But for a casual lurker who is researching, I hope they realize the spectrum of research has reached conclusions where EVs have environmental benefits over the long haul for many Americans. Maybe not a benefit for 100% of Americans, but enough benefit that EVs are taking the trend in a positive direction.

 

[EValancher]

Oil changes and gas stations are the 2 biggest reasons. the ongoing maintenance "should" be lower than ICE and the gas savings along with lower costs are helping me justify the price.

The environment aspect is nice, but since so much of our grid is powered by coal....how clean is it really? I'm near Niagara Falls, so we have a lot of hydro efficiencies. Really, it's the truck + performance + room for people/things.

As for why Chevy...Tesla still has support/repairability issues & I expect Rivian to be the same since they are so young and focused on getting vehicles out. I have an un-educated guess that Ford & Chevy would have better backend support given history & I just like Chevy more than Ford.

 

[EVTrucking]

We made the transition to EV primarily for the environment but also because most of my 50+ yrs of driving I have hated big oils grip, along with knowing some portion of the money spent went into the pockets of folks who want to harm us.


EVs are NOT the perfect solution but I believe it’s a step in the right direction.

Just imagine if EVs were the norm and the new thing were ICEs. Would you choose to switch to vehicles that inefficiently burn toxic explosive flammable gasoline while emitting toxic chemicals, particles and gasses. That are limited to the amount of gas they can hold. No infrastructure but that will eventually create thousands of mini super fund sites (leaking gas storage tanks). There is so much more bad stuff to say but we have had 100+ years to adjust and become complacent to becoming down right stupid.

We want what we think we want and dam responsibility and common sense!

If ICE exhaust was black and smelled bad we would pay a lot more attention to it. But it is mostly colorless and odorless so we drive and live immersed in it not caring about what it does to us.