Is Summer 2024 believable?

aldaran said:

I don't know what to believe but like tsuintx said, I'm not in a hurry. When I did my reservation back in January, I could have sworn it said that the fleet WT and RST First editions were going to be released in 2023 and all others in 2024. Then someone said that all WT and RST will be in 2023 and future trims in 2024. However, the website is pretty vague.

It says: Model year 2024 Silverado EV available Fall 2023. WT estimated MSRP starts at $39,900+DFC* with optional features and content, including up to 20,000 lbs. towing capability.* Future variations will offer a range of MSRPs, from around $50,000 to $60,000, $70,000, $80,000 and more, depending on selected battery range and available features such as Multi-Flex Midgate® with pass-through, panoramic fixed-glass roof, 4-Wheel Steer and Wide Open Watts Mode – providing a wide variety of capability and pricing options.

I'm in the 50-60 range max.

Click to expand...

Assuming the truck is coming out in the 2024 calendar year, that $39,900 marketed introduction WT price in 2022 is going to be like $60k total cash out the door (OTD) due to inflation, sales/use taxes, destination charges charges, paperwork, etc. Personally I always speak of OTD as what cash is necessary to literally leave the showroom with the vehicle. But I know some sales-folks say OTD is simply the subtotal of the vehicle negotiated price minus the trade-in. Super annoying how the term OTD is often mischaracterized by dealerships.

Some states are also modifying their excise taxes to get EVs to pay more up front for the damage they're about to do to the roadways. Since EVs don't use gasoline, they aren't paying the normal taxes that ICE vehicles pay through their fuel purchases. So you may be facing a stiffer vehicle registration cost compared to an ICE.

So if you're buying a RST with a low-end option load, you could expect $70k cash to transact/close in a great scenario. But consider, with the way the franchise dealer model works, expect them to add on dealer-installed options to further juice their margins... so it's $75k-$80k minimum cash at the ready seems like a fair plan so you're not sticker shocked. And I hope your local dealer isn't adding a $10k "service-fee" for the helluvit.

BTW, if you go out and get an EV truck without the wait-list-custom-order-workflow... expect to pay way over MSRP. All a sneaky dealership has to do is implement the tactic where they turn a new EV into a used EV. Then selling the used one over the MSRP of a new one. They can accomplish this by having a shell customer take possession of the vehicle so the title transfers, but then that shell returns the vehicle back to the dealership at cost (no use or sales tax involved). The prospective customer is just told some BS about how the financing for the vehicle fell through, and they EV had to be returned. But since the used vehicle is not beholden to the MSRP limits from GM, the dealership can do whatever it wants since it's a independent shop and has the right to price its used inventory as it pleases.

A GM exec mentioned in a interview recently (sorry I don’t have a link offhand) that GM was unveiling something called an ‘e-price’ I think - or something like that. Anyhow a system where you can get a quote on your vehicle on the internet that will be the actual price you pay when you get it at the dealership. If true and it works seems like a good approach as it will have dealer markup built in, and prevent gouging. Ford has talked about it being a problem but it seems like they don’t have anything in place.

GM does have a program in place already like this called the supplier discount. My company - which leases tons of GM cars worldwide - then gets an incentive that we employees can buy a GM car at GM or dealer employee cost. I used it once - went to a dealership, mentioned the program and gave them my number, the sales guy said “OK I’ve never seen one of these before” but came out with the secret book and showed me the actual cost of the vehicle and said “if you want it that’s your price”.

Anyhow would be great if it isn’t vaporware. The big 3 know these predatory practices are hurting their brand and they do want to stop it.

Assuming the truck is coming out in the 2024 calendar year, that $39,900 marketed introduction WT price in 2022 is going to be like $60k total cash out the door (OTD) due to inflation, sales/use taxes, destination charges charges, paperwork, etc. Personally I always speak of OTD as what cash is necessary to literally leave the showroom with the vehicle. But I know some sales-folks say OTD is simply the subtotal of the vehicle negotiated price minus the trade-in. Super annoying how the term OTD is often mischaracterized by dealerships.

Some states are also modifying their excise taxes to get EVs to pay more up front for the damage they're about to do to the roadways. Since EVs don't use gasoline, they aren't paying the normal taxes that ICE vehicles pay through their fuel purchases. So you may be facing a stiffer vehicle registration cost compared to an ICE.

So if you're buying a RST with a low-end option load, you could expect $70k cash to transact/close in a great scenario. But consider, with the way the franchise dealer model works, expect them to add on dealer-installed options to further juice their margins... so it's $75k-$80k minimum cash at the ready seems like a fair plan so you're not sticker shocked. And I hope your local dealer isn't adding a $10k "service-fee" for the helluvit.

BTW, if you go out and get an EV truck without the wait-list-custom-order-workflow... expect to pay way over MSRP. All a sneaky dealership has to do is implement the tactic where they turn a new EV into a used EV. Then selling the used one over the MSRP of a new one. They can accomplish this by having a shell customer take possession of the vehicle so the title transfers, but then that shell returns the vehicle back to the dealership at cost (no use or sales tax involved). The prospective customer is just told some BS about how the financing for the vehicle fell through, and they EV had to be returned. But since the used vehicle is not beholden to the MSRP limits from GM, the dealership can do whatever it wants since it's a independent shop and has the right to price its used inventory as it pleases.
[/QUOTE]

The dealership model is otw out and cannot die soon enough imho. I've walked away from as little as a 1k"market adj" or whatever fiction they choose to call their gouging. If the MSRP is still aprox 40k, then I'll buy it. If not, the most I'd put up w is some inflated mats or something. I'd rather spend the money on a plane ticket to a different dealer wo the BS and get a pleasant road trip in my new truck for my money.

As I understand it, in 2024 we'll have the option to xfer the tax credit to the dealer so they can use it and give the buyer a price break. So I expect some of them to try to pad the bill to extract that from the buyer and a few others to offer to bring the price down under MSRP in return for it although maybe not dollar for dollar.

Circling back to eliminating the dealer completely and knowing the exact price when you order, Tesla, although not my first pick, is a viable alternative. Wonky looking as hell, but the steel body looks tough. Just buff out scratches rather than fiddling w paint.
And no dealer lies and tricks.

EclecticGuy said:

Assuming the truck is coming out in the 2024 calendar year, that $39,900 marketed introduction WT price in 2022 is going to be like $60k total cash out the door (OTD) due to inflation, sales/use taxes, destination charges charges, paperwork, etc. Personally I always speak of OTD as what cash is necessary to literally leave the showroom with the vehicle. But I know some sales-folks say OTD is simply the subtotal of the vehicle negotiated price minus the trade-in. Super annoying how the term OTD is often mischaracterized by dealerships.

Some states are also modifying their excise taxes to get EVs to pay more up front for the damage they're about to do to the roadways. Since EVs don't use gasoline, they aren't paying the normal taxes that ICE vehicles pay through their fuel purchases. So you may be facing a stiffer vehicle registration cost compared to an ICE.

So if you're buying a RST with a low-end option load, you could expect $70k cash to transact/close in a great scenario. But consider, with the way the franchise dealer model works, expect them to add on dealer-installed options to further juice their margins... so it's $75k-$80k minimum cash at the ready seems like a fair plan so you're not sticker shocked. And I hope your local dealer isn't adding a $10k "service-fee" for the helluvit.

BTW, if you go out and get an EV truck without the wait-list-custom-order-workflow... expect to pay way over MSRP. All a sneaky dealership has to do is implement the tactic where they turn a new EV into a used EV. Then selling the used one over the MSRP of a new one. They can accomplish this by having a shell customer take possession of the vehicle so the title transfers, but then that shell returns the vehicle back to the dealership at cost (no use or sales tax involved). The prospective customer is just told some BS about how the financing for the vehicle fell through, and they EV had to be returned. But since the used vehicle is not beholden to the MSRP limits from GM, the dealership can do whatever it wants since it's a independent shop and has the right to price its used inventory as it pleases.

Click to expand...

The dealership model is otw out and cannot die soon enough imho. I've walked away from as little as a 1k"market adj" or whatever fiction they choose to call their gouging. If the MSRP is still aprox 40k, then I'll buy it. If not, the most I'd put up w is some inflated mats or something. I'd rather spend the money on a plane ticket to a different dealer wo the BS and get a pleasant road trip in my new truck for my money.

As I understand it, in 2024 we'll have the option to xfer the tax credit to the dealer so they can use it and give the buyer a price break. So I expect some of them to try to pad the bill to extract that from the buyer and a few others to offer to bring the price down under MSRP in return for it although maybe not dollar for dollar.

Circling back to eliminating the dealer completely and knowing the exact price when you order, Tesla, although not my first pick, is a viable alternative. Wonky looking as hell, but the steel body looks tough. Just buff out scratches rather than fiddling w paint.
And no dealer lies and tricks.
[/QUOTE]
Hey @EclecticGuy welcome to the forum! Is the WT model the one you're planning to get? Or a higher trim model?

Ch-EV-y said:

The dealership model is otw out and cannot die soon enough imho. I've walked away from as little as a 1k"market adj" or whatever fiction they choose to call their gouging. If the MSRP is still aprox 40k, then I'll buy it. If not, the most I'd put up w is some inflated mats or something. I'd rather spend the money on a plane ticket to a different dealer wo the BS and get a pleasant road trip in my new truck for my money.

As I understand it, in 2024 we'll have the option to xfer the tax credit to the dealer so they can use it and give the buyer a price break. So I expect some of them to try to pad the bill to extract that from the buyer and a few others to offer to bring the price down under MSRP in return for it although maybe not dollar for dollar.

Circling back to eliminating the dealer completely and knowing the exact price when you order, Tesla, although not my first pick, is a viable alternative. Wonky looking as hell, but the steel body looks tough. Just buff out scratches rather than fiddling w paint.
And no dealer lies and tricks.

Click to expand...

Hey @EclecticGuy welcome to the forum! Is the WT model the one you're planning to get? Or a higher trim model?

Click to expand...

The tax credit is received by the buyer when they reconcile their annual tax liability with the federal government (assuming both the vehicle purchase and the tax filer's income qualify for the incentive). The credit isn't being transferred to the dealer directly.

Although, to your point, a dealer could use knowledge of the federal rebate against the customer. For example, a dealer could claim that since the customer is getting $7,500 from the government, then it's only "fair" for the customer to pay a $5,000 dealer mark-up or else the dealer will sell the unit/allocation to another buyer. Since this is a free market, it is their franchised right to behave this way since the dealer stock is owned by the dealership.

Similarly, when I went into a showroom (pre COVID), I would use knowledge about factory to customer incentives, factory to dealer incentives, dealer holdback, floorplanning costs, and the dealer wholesale/retail profit margin to reduce my transaction price wayyyyy below MSRP (and wayyyyy below whatever "dealer invoice" price you see advertised online). Since it's a free market, it was my right as a customer to behave this way.

I agree with you all about having alternatives lined up. The easiest way to avoid over-paying is being willing to walk away from a bad transaction. Dealers prey on folks who are dead-set on a specific unit or unwilling to go the extra mile (literally) to find another dealership. If there's a limited supply of vehicles, the dealers gain the power-advantage and can extract more value from their limited stock at the expense of the buyer. If there's a recession, buyers can get some sweet deals. It goes both ways.

PS, I really do hate the franchise dealer model... but it's the world we live in right now. So if you want a product from GM... be prepared to navigate the franchised dealer model.