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Ford is bringing Tesla’s charging tech into its future EVs

953 Views 14 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Dive Bar Casanova

Ford EV owners will have access to more than 12,000 Tesla Superchargers throughout the U.S. and Canada starting next year.
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GM should jump on this. Keep the CCS port as well. The Tesla network is expanding fast.

Below is from yesterday and the day before.
9 with 8 stalls (plugs)
4 with 12 stalls (plugs)
2 with 16 stalls (plugs)
1 with 20 stalls (plugs)
2 with 32 stalls (plugs)
1 with 40 stalls (plugs)

Crowdsources Tesla Supercharger changes/adds/updates --> supercharge.info

8iUR3X3.jpg



2LhM9e6.jpg


utxHNTy.jpg
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GM should jump on this. Keep the CCS port as well. The Tesla network is expanding fast.

Below is from yesterday and the day before.
9 with 8 stalls (plugs)
4 with 12 stalls (plugs)
2 with 16 stalls (plugs)
1 with 20 stalls (plugs)
2 with 32 stalls (plugs)
1 with 40 stalls (plugs)

Crowdsources Tesla Supercharger changes/adds/updates --> supercharge.info

8iUR3X3.jpg



2LhM9e6.jpg


utxHNTy.jpg
If they do switch (and I think they will now that Ford has done it) there will be no need for both inlets, that is extra cost, complexity, and weight. They can either sell or include an adapter that can be used with CCS stations. Tesla already has this to allow their cars (only the newer cars support it) to charge on CCS.
Yeah, GM, jump for all those 1,000’s of Tesla 800 volt 350 kW charge stations out there, perfect for all those Hummers, Silverados, & Denalis you’ll soon be shipping. You too, Hyundai, Porsche, and Lucid. Surely Musk will have every single SC plug switched to 800 VDC V4 by this time next year. Zero waiting, and 97% charging reliability. If Musk tells you it will happen, it must be true.

Tesla’s SC network is so reliable because Tesla makes and OTA-updates both the charger and the EV hardware and software. Anyone actually believe that Tesla‘s SC engineers will do any better at sorting out 20 different brand EV’s NACS charging hardware/software implementations and glitches than EA, EVGO, Chargepoint, etc are doing w/ CCS? All the current CCS vendors’ engineers plus EV OEMS just assembled at a massiveCHARlN “testival” specifically to sort out and test and critique every version/ variation out there. Steady progress is being made. The CCS network a year from now will likely be a very different experience than today.

I remember in the early PC days , the only reliable hardware/software connections happened between Apple MAC computers to Apple printers. Dell, Compaq, etc. using DOS/windows struggled to reliably mate up w/ all the various brands of 3rd party printers And other accessories. Similar to the current CCS situation. Apple used this to push for an all-Apple environment - mice, keyboard, display, etc. as they had total control. And profited from each connection. Still wish for those days? Or are you now glad you have Windows AND iOS options, iPhone AND Android, Apple AND Brother, Canon, HP, etc.
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That doesn’t make any sense, CCS and NACS are interchangeable with adapters, they are universal standards, nothing like apples serial or PC parallel printers. Which again is a terrible example because apple branded printers were just HPs. The mess that was windows and dos drivers had nothing to do with closed or open ecosystems, but rather that Microsoft just didn’t care so it sucked. Apple kinda saved PCs from that BS by pushing intels USB standard, even then Microsoft half asssed support until XP. Anyways the analogy has nothing to do with DC fast chargers.
The reason Tesla super chargers are so popular is because they are in good locations, a lot of them, are inherently reliable and actually get service. The problem with EVgo and Electrify America is that they aren’t reliable and don’t get serviced, this does not seem to be an issue with the ChargePoint fast chargers so much even though they are slow. You can hate Tesla all you want but the reason their chargers are good is because they care, they had to do it right so they did. Nothing to do with proprietary or software updates. The connector itself is clearly superior, so I applaud fords move and hopefully GM, CCS is a terrible mess by committee.
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FYI, two great crowdsourced sites to see new chargers.
The Tesla one has excellent new filtering.
The CCS one could use it so you can look at >=4 stalls & >= 120 kW

Tesla - supercharge.info
CCS - fastcharger.info
The Tesla Supercharger system is more reliable than CCS DC fast chargers (DCFCs) for many reasons, including the interoperability problem mentioned above. But also because Tesla uses a simpler billing system (Plug and Charge) rather than requiring billing with a credit card or app AND the Tesla chargers have less failures. The failure rate of non-Tesla DCFCs is largely due to poor maintenance, poor electronics, and poor software. It is possible that these systems will improve with time but no guarantee. Ford and GM have recognized this existential issue - EV buyers have tilted toward Teslas because the charger system workers better.
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This is a coup de grâce for Ford. It's bigger than people realize.
We've had an EV6 for just onto a year now and have the experiences of non-Tesla charging on the road.
It sux.

Not range anxiety, it's broken chargers at the next stop anxiety.
When we stop to charge we plan it so their is enough battery range left to go onto the next charging station if on this stop chargers fail. They do fail, you can rely on that.

Rare with Tesla charging even in power outages. Tesla charging stations have power wall backups rated in the mega watts made from re purposed Tesla car batteries. Either from wrecks or warranty change-outs. Most the batteries in a warranty change-out are still good.
One bad battery may spoil the rest performance. 635 cells, maybe 3 are bad and effects range.

For some reason Tesla changes-out the complete set.
Check out Grubers channel on YouTube, he goes all over that fact.

"Well, you have Plug Share and other apps to tell you if the chargers are available or working." That's about 60% reliable, and 100% unreliable method especially over the past Memorial day weekend across the USA. The entire Electrify America system went down,,, again and this time on an app bug.

Electrify America charger grenaded in Mojave Ca:



Charging up as we're heading home from Las Vegas. People pulling up in EV's roll down their window and ask "Is it working?" Lit doesn't mean it works, unlit means it's dead in the water.



Tesla plug handles and cables are light weight and easy to plug in. Chargers are addressable and reliable and simple. Simply plug n play.

Non-Tesla CCS and J1772 are big, heavy, clunky, bulky, clumsy, fussy and you have to go into your app to make them work, if they work at all. In freezing weather makes it X10 PITA to use.
Especially a wrestling match for that 95lb daughter trying to plug in her car. She'll be 92lbs at the end of the session.

Musk is an energy Tycoon. Many of his Southwest and other locations Tesla charging stations are solar powered. Instead of selling his excess to the grid for 8 cents per KW, he sells it for around 31 to 41 cents per KW to a good portion, not all but a lot of his customers.




After our GMC Sierra EV arrives when on the road I plan to have 10 gallons of gas in containers and the GenMax 7250 / 220V NEMA 14 50 plug generator (on the right) in the bed.
If no chargers available at the nowhere everything is a million miles from I got backup. 32 miles range per hour of charge time. Rednex hybrid, better than being stranded:




We've used the Electrify America Chargers in Baker Calif 6 times. They are next to the Tesla Chargers (above pix).
We've witnessed 2 Tesla owners trading punches at the Teslas and other feuds twice over disputes when Tesla owners try to outfox each other for a charging spot.

At this location YouTube channel TFLEV witnessed the same on other occasions as did Out Of Spec Motoring YouTube channel on separate occasions as well.
Theirs's been a recent fatal shooting between Tesla owners at another location reported in the news.

When at any charger other EV owners may ask you to block others that are waiting when you pull out so they can be next on your spot. "Can ya help me out? " Don't do it. Act aloof and safely exit.

I posted a video on the Tesla forums of the wife and I shooting our pistols safely in the desert in route to Vegas.
I knew what the response would be with Tesla owners and I was right. Furious.
If you converse with them you soon realize most are a sandwich short of a full picnic.

Many Comfort Inns across the USA allow dogs and have a NEMA 14 50 / 50 AMP plug available to customers. Sometimes the plug use is free, sometimes wife has found they ask for $8 flat rate.

Wife busts out her portable charging cable with the NEMA 14 50 plug and plugs the car in, walks the dog,, sleeps off that leg of the journey.
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Lol you had me up until you talked about the Tesla owners being nuts and not liking that you shot some pistols at a range.

Based on your entire writeup... I feel like sticking with ICE or a PHEV makes more sense lol. Just skip all this EV charging malarkey, and with ICE you won't have to deal with Tesla owners heh.

After my recent disaster-class experience with Tesla, we're to change from 2 BEVs in the garage to 1 BEV for commuting and 1 ICE for longer family trips.
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This is a coup de grâce for Ford. It's bigger than people realize.
We've had an EV6 for just onto a year now and have the experiences of non-Tesla charging on the road.
It sux.

Not range anxiety, it's broken chargers at the next stop anxiety.
When we stop to charge we plan it so their is enough battery range left to go onto the next charging station if on this stop chargers fail. They do fail, you can rely on that.

Rare with Tesla charging even in power outages. Tesla charging stations have power wall backups rated in the mega watts made from re purposed Tesla car batteries. Either from wrecks or warranty change-outs. Most the batteries in a warranty change-out are still good.
One bad battery may spoil the rest performance. 635 cells, maybe 3 are bad and effects range.

For some reason Tesla changes-out the complete set.
Check out Grubers channel on YouTube, he goes all over that fact.

"Well, you have Plug Share and other apps to tell you if the chargers are available or working." That's about 60% reliable, and 100% unreliable method especially over the past Memorial day weekend across the USA. The entire Electrify America system went down,,, again and this time on an app bug.

Electrify America charger grenaded in Mojave Ca:



Charging up as we're heading home from Las Vegas. People pulling up in EV's roll down their window and ask "Is it working?" Lit doesn't mean it works, unlit means it's dead in the water.



Tesla plug handles and cables are light weight and easy to plug in. Chargers are addressable and reliable and simple. Simply plug n play.

Non-Tesla CCS and J1772 are big, heavy, clunky, bulky, clumsy, fussy and you have to go into your app to make them work, if they work at all. In freezing weather makes it X10 PITA to use.
Especially a wrestling match for that 95lb daughter trying to plug in her car. She'll be 92lbs at the end of the session.

Musk is an energy Tycoon. Many of his Southwest and other locations Tesla charging stations are solar powered. Instead of selling his excess to the grid for 8 cents per KW, he sells it for around 31 to 41 cents per KW to a good portion, not all but a lot of his customers.




After our GMC Sierra EV arrives when on the road I plan to have 10 gallons of gas in containers and the GenMax 7250 / 220V NEMA 14 50 plug generator (on the right) in the bed.
If no chargers available at the nowhere everything is a million miles from I got backup. 32 miles range per hour of charge time. Rednex hybrid, better than being stranded:




We've used the Electrify America Chargers in Baker Calif 6 times. They are next to the Tesla Chargers (above pix).
We've witnessed 2 Tesla owners trading punches at the Teslas and other feuds twice over disputes when Tesla owners try to outfox each other for a charging spot.

At this location YouTube channel TFLEV witnessed the same on other occasions as did Out Of Spec Motoring YouTube channel on separate occasions as well.
Theirs's been a recent fatal shooting between Tesla owners at another location reported in the news.

When at any charger other EV owners may ask you to block others that are waiting when you pull out so they can be next on your spot. "Can ya help me out? " Don't do it. Act aloof and safely exit.

I posted a video on the Tesla forums of the wife and I shooting our pistols safely in the desert in route to Vegas.
I knew what the response would be with Tesla owners and I was right. Furious.
If you converse with them you soon realize most are a sandwich short of a full picnic.

Many Comfort Inns across the USA allow dogs and have a NEMA 14 50 / 50 AMP plug available to customers. Sometimes the plug use is free, sometimes wife has found they ask for $8 flat rate.

Wife busts out her portable charging cable with the NEMA 14 50 plug and plugs the car in, walks the dog,, sleeps off that leg of the journey.
I cannot tell, is this an endorsement, or an indictment?
I cannot tell, is this an endorsement, or an indictment?

Lol that's how I feel too. I think Casanova-guy likes the Tesla charging infrastructure and plug, but he dislikes Tesla owners.

Unfortunately that's the reality of Tesla. Lots of mini-Elons working there and buying the products. Could be a good thing? Or a bad thing? Who knows.
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I think the owners that are bubble off plumb are just more social media active. They can be just as dogmatic as EV haters.

Another example: we just bought a new GMC 3500 Duramax Diesel. A ridiculous claim that GM pulled a VW diesel emissions cheat hit the nightly news. Turned out to be pure rumor. No basis.
3 months into ownership California sent me a notice to take the truck to a certified smog station and have it checked on the strength of the rumor.

Passed easily with diesel fuel.

Typical Calif: My registration renewal came up 9 months later and it called for another emissions check. $1200 to register in in Calif annually BTW, but thats another thread.

This time I went in with sustainable/renewable diesel fuel. The emission numbers were lower. Not by a lot,, but lower none the less. Its a fuel brewed with solar power from farm silage.

I posted that in the Tesla forums and discovered they're not only EV owners, they are a self sworn-in jury. NFW,,, I was cooking the books.

In about 515 homes in our neighborhood we have a lot of Tesla owners.
Almost all of us solar power charge our EVs at home. BTW: A couple of S owners with over 300.000 miles on their Teslas.
Walking the dog and occasionally meeting them they are an ok bunch. They have nicer home than me,, but my home is paid off.

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Lol you had me up until you talked about the Tesla owners being nuts and not liking that you shot some pistols at a range.

Based on your entire writeup... I feel like sticking with ICE or a PHEV makes more sense lol. Just skip all this EV charging malarkey, and with ICE you won't have to deal with Tesla owners heh.

After my recent disaster-class experience with Tesla, we're to change from 2 BEVs in the garage to 1 BEV for commuting and 1 ICE for longer family trips.
We like Tesla products, it's the people surrounding the products we've had issues with. It's Orwellian, especially with their solar installations.. Telling them that puts a fire under their @zzez.

I love the new GMC Canyon but no more ICE for us. Gas and Diesel in these parts is $5 to $6 but the thrill of driving electric has me sold. So,, on the list for the GMC Sierra electric.

Wife drives over 100 miles a day + the Vegas runs we do so we've seen a $400 to $500 drop in our monthly gasoline bill with EV. Daughter charges her Model 3 here too. Still see $77 credit on the electric bill.

EV is the way to roll.

I hope you all take my posts with a sense of humor.
Free advise is worth what you paid for it.
We like Tesla products, it's the people surrounding the products we've had issues with. It's Orwellian, especially with their solar installations.. Telling them that puts a fire under their @zzez.

I love the new GMC Canyon but no more ICE for us. Gas and Diesel in these parts is $5 to $6 but the thrill of driving electric has me sold. So,, on the list for the GMC Sierra electric.

Wife drives over 100 miles a day + the Vegas runs we do so we've seen a $400 to $500 drop in our monthly gasoline bill with EV. Daughter charges her Model 3 here too. Still see $77 credit on the electric bill.

EV is the way to roll.

I hope you all take my posts with a sense of humor.
Free advise is worth what you paid for it.

Lol I think one issue you're facing is that Tesla is such a popular brand that now you're getting more of a representative sample of the general California population when you speak about "Tesla Customers". So it's sort of like saying "the general population in California seems to dislike waiting their turn, dislike big trucks, and dislike guns".

2 Months ago, I would 100% believe in your sentiment about how BEV is the way to go. I have a rooftop full of solar, 3x Tesla Powerwalls, 2x Tesla Gen 3 Wall Connectors, and had these in my garage.




The problem is when the Model X crapped the bed and kept "stalling" (aka shutting down systems and requiring a pull-over), Tesla's service told me to get lost and refused to acknowledge the safety issue. I thought Tesla already had a rather cavalier attitude about safety regarding their "fully self driving", but it was surprising to me when they said a vehicle that quit working was totally normal. Tesla's dismissal of safety concerns that recnetly came out in the news just further reinforced they have issues addressing Safety.

Then i discovered some massive manufacturing shortcuts on the Model X and exposed bare metal (no e-coat or paint). The whole time I'm being condescended by their service center managers about how stalling cars are fine and shoddy manufacturing is normal for Tesla.

So yeah, Eff Tesla. I want BEV's but they don't seem ready at this time. Tesla has great tech and charging but it's coupled with a-hole service. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, GM, Ford, etc don't offer vehicles that provide the same utility as a Model X.

ICE seems like a pretty good option right now - even at $6+ a gallon for premium 92. Whatever keeps us away from those pesky Tesla Customers and away from Tesla Service :)
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We found when we travel EV to travel in the middle of the night after midnight. Most chargers are available and its cooler. Cooler makes a big difference.

Speaking of cooler, in hot weather you may see Tesla owners wrapping a wet towel around the charging handle. It cools the handle and juices up the flow.
Google Images:



Looking forward to using Tesla chargers if available with the J1772 Magic Dock even though the tale is it'll cost more per KW than a Tesla owner pays.

We with GM EV's may be in luck yet.
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