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I am new to this forum. I was going to get the ford lightening at a later time but changed my mind after doing some research on this and the bigger battery and charge times. My question is how is the charge time going to be for this with a standard 120 volt standard outlet compared to the ford lightening?. I read the charge times would be better and faster. Thoughts?.
 

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'18 Cajun Red Bolt, '19 Shock Bolt
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I think using a 120V charger is completely insufficient for primary charging for the battery capacities in these trucks. To charge to full from 50% (100kWh) it would take around 70 hours at 12 amps (that’s the max my Bolt will charge at with the 120V cable). At a minimum you are going to want a 240V/30amp charger with daily charging. I would recommend a 40 or 50amp charger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I think using a 120V charger is completely insufficient for primary charging for the battery capacities in these trucks. To charge to full from 50% (100kWh) it would take around 70 hours at 12 amps (that’s the max my Bolt will charge at with the 120V cable). At a minimum you are going to want a 240V/30amp charger with daily charging. I would recommend a 40 or 50amp charger.
I wouldn’t be doing a lot of driving it it be for short commutes. I was just wondering how the charging times would compare to the ford lightening.
 

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'18 Cajun Red Bolt, '19 Shock Bolt
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I wouldn’t be doing a lot of driving it it be for short commutes. I was just wondering how the charging times would compare to the ford lightening.
The charging times will be pretty comparable, the Chevy may have longer times due to its larger battery. I believe both will have a max AC charge rate of 19.2kW, so it will take the same amount of time to recharge either vehicle for the same battery usage.

The WT base trim is planned for spring next year, while the high-end RST will be released to First Edition reservation holders in fall ‘23. Other trims will follow after that.
 

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I am new to this forum. I was going to get the ford lightening at a later time but changed my mind after doing some research on this and the bigger battery and charge times. My question is how is the charge time going to be for this with a standard 120 volt standard outlet compared to the ford lightening?. I read the charge times would be better and faster. Thoughts?.
With the 120 volt charger, my Mach E gains about 3 miles of range per hour. Assuming either of the trucks you mentioned will be larger, and therefore use more electricity per mile, I would estimate you could recover about two miles of range per hour through a standard outlet.
 

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With the 120 volt charger, my Mach E gains about 3 miles of range per hour. Assuming either of the trucks you mentioned will be larger, and therefore use more electricity per mile, I would estimate you could recover about two miles of range per hour through a standard outlet.
Yeah, that’s about what I figure as well. For anything more than a short trip to the grocery store, the 120V charger is useless.
 

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I dunno about that, I could recover my daily 20ish mile commute with an overnight charge if I had to.
That’s fair, it’s just not a use case I practice. Neither of our current vehicles are just for commuting. Even with the Bolt, we’d have a hard time recovering our daily usage at night using just 120V. Especially after our frequent 200mi trips…it would never get back to a full charge at 30-40 miles per overnight charge.
 

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Do not think in terms of what is the bare minimum you may be able to get away with in the most optimal of conditions. People don't come home and depart at the exact same time every day with zero surprises. Sometimes you'll forget to plug in; sometimes you'll need to leave early. So you'll want as much reasonable charge as you can get. 48 amp AC chargers seem to be the sweet spot for most homes and commuters.

Teslas today have a max home-charge-rate of 48 amps (11.5 kW). There were some earlier model S and X that could go up to 80 amps (19.2 kW), but the new ones today only do 48 amps.

There's also a lot of debate around whether you would want a dedicated wall charger or just get a NEMA outlet and plug in. There is no consensus here... some people just want to charge with the least amount of investment possible. Some people want a charger that they feel is a fixture totally intended for EV charging. So my recommendation is to pick the camp that is right for you (NEMA outlet or EV wall connector) ... and get the desired hardware installed by an electrician in your garage.

As far as I can tell, nobody out there that drives their EV every day is happy with charging only on a 120v outlet.
 

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Do not think in terms of what is the bare minimum you may be able to get away with in the most optimal of conditions. People don't come home and depart at the exact same time every day with zero surprises. Sometimes you'll forget to plug in; sometimes you'll need to leave early. So you'll want as much reasonable charge as you can get. 48 amp AC chargers seem to be the sweet spot for most homes and commuters.

Teslas today have a max home-charge-rate of 48 amps (11.5 kW). There were some earlier model S and X that could go up to 80 amps (19.2 kW), but the new ones today only do 48 amps.

There's also a lot of debate around whether you would want a dedicated wall charger or just get a NEMA outlet and plug in. There is no consensus here... some people just want to charge with the least amount of investment possible. Some people want a charger that they feel is a fixture totally intended for EV charging. So my recommendation is to pick the camp that is right for you (NEMA outlet or EV wall connector) ... and get the desired hardware installed by an electrician in your garage.

As far as I can tell, nobody out there that drives their EV every day is happy with charging only on a 120v outlet.
We own a Leaf and drive around 50-60 miles per day. A 120v overnight charge suits us fine. We plug in every night at 11 and unplug at 7. Keeps the battery full and ready to go every morning.
 

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We own a Chevy Bolt EV and use the 120-volt charger 90% of the time. I also installed 240-volt 40-amp outlets at home and at my lake-house, for when I need a quicker charge. I may increase those to 50-amp outlets for use with the Silverado EV when I get it.

With the 240-volt outlets, I can take the level 2 charger with me to use at either location. We often drive the 150-mile roundtrip between the two houses, and have no problem with the Bolt's 260-mile range -- in warmer weather. We're in Alaska, so we see a significant reduction in range in wintertime -- about a 40% reduction at worst. That comes from the more inefficient use of electric power in colder weather, and use of the heater in the car.

There's a free DCFC quick-charger on our route, but we rarely use it. We also have a solar system, so fuel is basically "free" most of the year.
 

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We own a Leaf and drive around 50-60 miles per day. A 120v overnight charge suits us fine. We plug in every night at 11 and unplug at 7. Keeps the battery full and ready to go every morning.
Nissan Leaf is about 250 watt hour per mile.

F150 lightning (and presumably Silverado EV) is 500 watt hours per mile.

Whatever juice you got into your Leaf would need to double for your future EV truck for the same distance travelled.

If you’re an early adopter of a mega expensive EV truck, do the right thing and get at a 48A dedicated EV charger installed in your house or a NEMA plug outlet.

Could you get by with less? Sure. But why would you want to barely squeak by … instead of enjoying your truck as most as possible with current residential charging options?
 

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I wouldn’t be doing a lot of driving it it be for short commutes. I was just wondering how the charging times would compare to the ford lightening.
@mbeadnell -- Sorry in advance for the long post; I've seen the following discussed in other forums, but not here, so I'm going to break the concepts down in detail. Apologies if you've heard some of this before; I'm also writing it for the person I was 6 years ago, who dearly wished he knew all this when he bought his Chevy Bolt, once upon a time. :)

"Short commutes" and "Charge times" is a little vague. Let's break it out by 'level' for the Chevy.

LevelVolts at wallAmps at wall (note, these #s are derated by 20% from breaker rating per elec code) So, 10A on a 15A circuit, 40A on a 50A circuit, etckW at ChargerApprox charge time (empty to full) in hours = (batt capacity in kwh)/(charger kw)mi/hr of Range gained per charging hr (assuming vehicle consumes 0.5kwh/mi)
1120VAC101.2200kwh/1.2kw ~= 166h2.4 mi/hr
2240VAC409.6200kwh/9.6kw ~= 21h19.2 mi/hr
2240VAC8019.2200kwh/19.2kw ~= 10h38.4 mi/hr
3It's Complicated but 800VDCIt's ComplicatedIt's Complicated, up to 350kwIt's Complicated b/c calculus, and also b/c you never L3 charge to full but only about 80%. But to make easy math, say 200kwh/300kw = 0.66hr = 40m.600 mi/hr

So, if you're charging at L1, the Ford and Chevy will charge at about the same rate, because the limiting factor is your wall outlet. Charging one vehicle from empty may take longer than charging the other, but only because one's battery may be bigger than the other, like having a bigger gas tank. You can figure out if this works for you by figuring out how many miles you drive, guesstimating how many kwh that'll consume, and then dividing it out in the right column of the table above. (so if you use 12kwh/day, even at L1 you'll be good to go in about 10 hrs of overnight charging.) The above table doesn't account for resistive losses in the cables, inefficiency in the charger, etc, so real world numbers will be, say, 5% worse, but you get the general idea.

If you're on a road trip, you'll almost surely be charging at L3, aka DC Fast Charge or DCFC, and that's where Things Get Complicated. I'm not a battery expert, but the basic idea is that the batteries don't charge at the same speeds at 10% full as they do at 90% full. If you imagine a graph with power(kw) on the Y axis and battery charge % on the X axis, the L1 and L2 charge lines are basically flat, constant power whether at 10% or 90%. But L3 is mopre complicated. It's easier for people to rush into a stadium when most seats are empty, but hard and slow when empty seats are hard to find and hard to reach. DCFC behaves similarly, and instead of a constant rate (straight line) you get a curve. And in fact that's the term for this-- the 'charge curve'. Higher, and flatter, is better-- means you can push more power into the battery, fast, for longer - which means less time charging. To 'really' figure out how long it'll take to charge either vehicle, you integrate under the charge curve. It's just that that is really easy when the line's horizontal and flat; you just multiply like we did in the table. :) Note that this is also why folks say not to DCFC past about 80% -- it gets hard for power to 'find a place to sit down' so charging gets very slow. It's actually faster to charge to ~80% and then drive down to 20% and charge 'fast' again, so that's what folks do.

Stepping back out of the math for a minute, the big difference between the Chevy and Ford is that the Ford's L3 system will only accept up to 400V compared to Chevy's 800V. So while it's not exact (because charge curves), I expect the Ford to take significantly longer (say twice as long?) to charge up while in the middle of a road trip. That, specifically, is why I cancelled my F150 reservation and got in line for a Silverado EV. I like almost everything else about the Ford better, but I'm not interested in twiddling my thumbs at a rest stop for say 90 minutes instead of 45, twice, on an already-long drive to visit my family.

ETA: implemented @Holeydonut 's excellent suggestion to show range recovered in the table. So depending on what a 'short' commute is for you, you can now easily get a feel for how long you'd need to charge to get back to full after your day's commute.
 

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@mbeadnell -- Sorry in advance for the long post; I've seen the following discussed in other forums, but not here, so I'm going to break the concepts down in detail. Apologies if you've heard some of this before; I'm also writing it for the person I was 6 years ago, who dearly wished he knew all this when he bought his Chevy Bolt, once upon a time. :)

"Short commutes" and "Charge times" is a little vague. Let's break it out by 'level' for the Chevy.

LevelVolts at wallAmps at wall (note, these #s are derated by 20% from breaker rating per elec code) So, 10A on a 15A circuit, 40A on a 50A circuit, etckW at ChargerApprox charge time (empty to full) in hours = (batt capacity in kwh)/(charger kw)
1120VAC101.2200kwh/1.2kw ~= 166h
2240VAC409.6200kwh/9.6kw ~= 21h
2240VAC8019.2200kwh/19.2kw ~= 10h
3It's Complicated but 800VDCIt's ComplicatedIt's Complicated, up to 350kwIt's Complicated b/c calculus, and also b/c you never L3 charge to full but only about 80%. But to make easy math, say 200kwh/300kw = 0.66hr = 40m.

So, if you're charging at L1, the Ford and Chevy will charge at about the same rate, because the limiting factor is your wall outlet. Charging one vehicle from empty may take longer than charging the other, but only because one's battery may be bigger than the other, like having a bigger gas tank. You can figure out if this works for you by figuring out how many miles you drive, guesstimating how many kwh that'll consume, and then dividing it out in the right column of the table above. (so if you use 12kwh/day, even at L1 you'll be good to go in about 10 hrs of overnight charging.) The above table doesn't account for resistive losses in the cables, inefficiency in the charger, etc, so real world numbers will be, say, 5% worse, but you get the general idea.

If you're on a road trip, you'll almost surely be charging at L3, aka DC Fast Charge or DCFC, and that's where Things Get Complicated. I'm not a battery expert, but the basic idea is that the batteries don't charge at the same speeds at 10% full as they do at 90% full. If you imagine a graph with power(kw) on the Y axis and battery charge % on the X axis, the L1 and L2 charge lines are basically flat, constant power whether at 10% or 90%. But L3 is mopre complicated. It's easier for people to rush into a stadium when most seats are empty, but hard and slow when empty seats are hard to find and hard to reach. DCFC behaves similarly, and instead of a constant rate (straight line) you get a curve. And in fact that's the term for this-- the 'charge curve'. Higher, and flatter, is better-- means you can push more power into the battery, fast, for longer - which means less time charging. To 'really' figure out how long it'll take to charge either vehicle, you integrate under the charge curve. It's just that that is really easy when the line's horizontal and flat; you just multiply like we did in the table. :) Note that this is also why folks say not to DCFC past about 80% -- it gets hard for power to 'find a place to sit down' so charging gets very slow. It's actually faster to charge to ~80% and then drive down to 20% and charge 'fast' again, so that's what folks do.

Stepping back out of the math for a minute, the big difference between the Chevy and Ford is that the Ford's L3 system will only accept up to 400V compared to Chevy's 800V. So while it's not exact (because charge curves), I expect the Ford to take significantly longer (say twice as long?) to charge up while in the middle of a road trip. That, specifically, is why I cancelled my F150 reservation and got in line for a Silverado EV. I like almost everything else about the Ford better, but I'm not interested in twiddling my thumbs at a rest stop for say 90 minutes instead of 45, twice, on an already-long drive to visit my family.
Thanks for summarizing this!

I think it’s important to note that in your example 12kWh of charging on a L1 charger is only 24 miles if the vehicle is 500 watt hours per mile. The Ford Lightning EV and Rivian R1T need about 500 watt hours per mile. I guess if someone’s daily round trips to work, errands etc are about 24 miles they could get by with L1 charging at home or infrequent trips to a fast charging option.

But a L2 charger provides such a boost to the quality of life enjoyment of the EV. Highly recommend prospective owners to budget in the installation of a L2 at home.
 

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Thanks for summarizing this!

I think it’s important to note that in your example 12kWh of charging on a L1 charger is only 24 miles if the vehicle is 500 watt hours per mile. The Ford Lightning EV and Rivian R1T need about 500 watt hours per mile. I guess if someone’s daily round trips to work, errands etc are about 24 miles they could get by with L1 charging at home or infrequent trips to a fast charging option.

But a L2 charger provides such a boost to the quality of life enjoyment of the EV. Highly recommend prospective owners to budget in the installation of a L2 at home.
Your -translation to realworld miles- point is excellent, thank you! I will update the table to include 'range gained per hour' assuming 500Wh/mi.
 
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