Silverado EV Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please, someone correct me if I am wrong, but it looks like 400 miles of range will only come on a Silverado EV 4WT at a cost of more than $80,000. Most of us never expected a $39,900 MSRP EV WT base model to have 400 miles of range and many would be willing to pay a little bit more for it - but DOUBLE the cost?!? The Silverado EV just went from a game changer to something beyond the reach of most buyers. So disappointing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
This is no different than Ford, who markets the Lightning at about a $40K price point, but they do not actually build any of those, to get their extended range battery, you need to pay somewhere in the same $80K range. I am sorry you are disappointed, but currently this is the marketplace for cutting edge EVs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I know there have been significant problems and delays with the Cybertruck roll out, so go easy on me here. If past is prolog there will be additional delays and problems prior to Tesla's projected 2023 production start at its Giga, Texas plant (Austin). But a two motor Cybertruck with a 300 mile range is currently projected to cost $54,980. A three motor Cybertruck with a 500 mile range is currently projected to cost $74,980. It seems to me that GM's real competitor in the light EV truck market is Tesla, rather than Ford. I hope there is still time, prior to its 2023 release, for Chevy to be more competitive with the pricing of its 400 mile range Silverado EV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
I hope you are correct. It is likely that you could potentially option a 500 mile CT out so that it comes in around $55K, My suspicion is that there will not be many, if any, of those that are actually built at that price point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
The question I have is if the 3WT is a base pack of 300 miles or if there is an even smaller pack for the $40k wt. Either way a non 400 mile middle of the road equipped non WT is going to be 80k+ Kinda starting to feel like the 105k first edition is a good deal 😂 I won’t believe anything about Tesla until it’s for sale, same as the Silverado.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
124 Posts
I hope there is still time, prior to its 2023 release, for Chevy to be more competitive with the pricing of its 400 mile range Silverado EV.
I'm with you on that, but not gonna hold my breath. One would be so lucky to even get 300 mile range for freaking 50K which is kinda the max I've been shooting for, give or take a little.

Seems like I will have to pass on the first wave of EV trucks and see if, with broader adoption, prices will become more reasonable as time goes by. No skin off my back as my ICE Silverado works just fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Don't forget 4WT is $90k total to get the keys if you're planning the financing/loans/cash for your truck.

And WT only comes in white/black with 4-way cloth upholstered seats. If you want a normally equipped truck interior (you know for losers like myself who aren't hauling gravel to a dozen jobsites), this is easily going to be $90k MSRP or $100k+ cash OTD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
How is everyone looking at the mileage rating? From what we've seen with real world testing of Rivian, Lightning & Hummer, once you're on the highway, your range drops from that idealized number. The rated mileage seems to be what the battery can do in city or non-highway driving. If someone is actually going 400mi daily, I don't think EV's are there yet. The home recharge time would be more that I could handle doing it multiple days in a row. But if the average daily driving is under....roughly 150 miles, I think overnight charging can be topped off.

That 400 number is nice to have for bigger trips & spending a couple hours at a supercharger.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I own a 2022 Hyundai Ioniq 5 with a 302 mile advertised range. I have actually been able to exceed that range on a few occasions IF driving alone, in warm weather, without climate control or cargo, etc. Add these things to the mix and down comes the range. Of course, all these variables decrease gas mileage on an ICE too. The Ioniq 5 will charge from 10% to 80% on a CCS fast charger in just under the advertised 18 minutes. But due to spotty CCS fast charging availability I haven't been brave enough to take the car on a long distance hike yet. Perhaps I'll gain enough confidence to plan such a trip soon. I think for light truck EVs, building more charging infrastructure is as important as increasing battery range at a reasonable price point. With better charging infrastructure you could reach further distances by charging a smaller, less expensive battery pack more frequently. Tesla has been very forward thinking in building out its charging infrastructure, which will give the Cybertruck competitive advantage over other light truck EVs for the time being. Wouldn't it be grand if Tesla actually opened its proprietary fast chargers for CCS use in the USA as they have piloted in Europe?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Sure would be nice if GM would just pony up with the trims and pricing so we could make up our minds. I’ve been using a GM rewards card exclusively this year and that may have been a mistake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Sure would be nice if GM would just pony up with the trims and pricing so we could make up our minds. I’ve been using a GM rewards card exclusively this year and that may have been a mistake.

IMO just look up what Ford is doing with the 2023 Lightning and price off that (adjust like 5% for inflation into 2024). The good (or bad) about the Big Domestic 3 is they move together on MSRP pricing and net pricing (net of incentives) in a mostly logical way. So far the published 3WT and 4WT pricing actually look somewhat attractive when compared to Ford.

A strippo Pro with 230 miles range is $52k before DFC and acquisition. This is comparable to a yet-to-be-announced 1WT. If Chevy actually honors what amounts to a "zeroWT" $39.9k before DFC target on a Silverado EV, maybe it'll be like 100 miles range and won't have a cargo bed or door handles hahah.

A base XLT is $59.5k before DFC. This is likely comparable to a yet-to-be-announced 2WT since it's only 230 miles of range with cloth interior and basic trimmings.

A XLT with the extended range battery is $81k (this MSRP and all subsequent MSRP's I list below are without DFC). But right now, Ford forces buyers to option up with bigger rims and the charge station. So you have to kind of strip out those added options to comp with a 3WT. The XLT + bigger battery is 320 miles of range. If Ford ever offers the XLT + bigger battery without the margin-enhancing options to fleet buyers, it'll be about $72k which is where the 3WT pricing (per that GM Authority article minus DFC) currently sits.

Ford can't offer a 4WT comparison since it's batteries aren't that big (yet). But $75k MSRP (per that GM Authority article minus DFC) on a 4WT seems like a relative bargain compared to a XLT.

A Lariat with the small battery is $74k MSRP. If the Silverado EV ever offers a retail LT trim for non-fleet buyers and a rinky dink battery, expect it to slot here.

A Lariat with the larger battery is $86k MSRP. If the Silverado EV ever offers a retail LT trim for non-fleet buyers and the standard battery, expect it to be around here.

A Platinum is $97k. This will probably be similar to a "normal" RST

If there was the possibility of a Platinum with a larger battery, expect it to fall in line with the First Edition RST at $107k or so.


But $107k is a steal compared to a Tesla Model S or Model X ... so $107k is cheap amirite? And add on 10% for doc fees and taxes. You better start buying more on that GM rewards card man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
By your reasoning a trailboss with 300 miles range would be 80K+ even with 7500 off taxes and saving 25k on gas over 10 years that is impossible to justify. I just don’t see how they will get the sales during a recession with pricing like that. Maybe they won’t have the capacity to produce enough and it’s just a luxury product for those who can afford it. They claimed starting at 40k with trims slotting in at 50-60-70k, that sounds like it was a lie, unless it’s a bare bones stripped out WT.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
Can't argue too much with your comparisons - as painful as they are. The 2 or 3 motor Cybertruck is quickly moving up on my list though. If only I can get used to the looks. :)

Do you really think the megalomaniac man-child burning Twitter to the ground is going to throw a bone to folks to get a Cybertruck at a discount? Dual Motor Large Pack Rivian (320 miles range) R1T is $79k before Destination. Dual Motor Cybertruck will probably be $80k... anything less would shock me (pun). But with the way things are going, expect $90k because $10k of that pricing will go toward Tesla buying ad-space on Twitter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
By your reasoning a trailboss with 300 miles range would be 80K+ even with 7500 off taxes and saving 25k on gas over 10 years that is impossible to justify. I just don’t see how they will get the sales during a recession with pricing like that. Maybe they won’t have the capacity to produce enough and it’s just a luxury product for those who can afford it. They claimed starting at 40k with trims slotting in at 50-60-70k, that sounds like it was a lie, unless it’s a bare bones stripped out WT.

That's why prior to COVID and the rise of direct-to-consumer stuff, the only people paying MSRP at a traditional showroom were getting limited edition runs of special vehicles, price insensitive, or not paying attention.

There are figurative dollars on the hoods of cars to make deals work so long as the buyer is willing to negotiate. That's why first-degree price discrimination is so prevalent (and painful for buyers) in the auto industry. Dealerships buy from the manufacturer, and end-consumers buy from the dealers. This separation allows the dealers to be the shock absorber to put their capital to bear to manage sales/inventory-carrying while the automaker manages supply chain and manufacturing. But the harder the recession, the more inventory builds up in the channel. The automaker is ultimately responsible to flush the channel or else the dealers won't buy more cars.

A supply chain that isn't supplying or end assembly that isn't assembling will nuke the industry. So the automakers slam boatloads of cash on hoods to clear the glut of inventory building on dealer lots and airfields. This is very inefficient... if GM had it its way in a perfect world, it would simply reduce pricing in a transparent way to increase demand as necessary. Actually I take that back... if GM just lowered the price of its vehicles in a transparent way it would absolutely destroy the balance sheet of GM Financial... so yeah recessions are rough.

Anyway, GM has to allow every dealer to negotiate with more incentive dollars lowering net pricing. The customer won't know how much total incentives are on the table... but they will be initially enticed with some more advertised discounts. MSRP won't change, but what customers agree to will be lower during a recession. The dealerships have always argued they know how to extract the most value from the masses, so they believe this is the best way for them. But it sucks for consumers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Do you really think the megalomaniac man-child burning Twitter to the ground is going to throw a bone to folks to get a Cybertruck at a discount? Dual Motor Large Pack Rivian (320 miles range) R1T is $79k before Destination. Dual Motor Cybertruck will probably be $80k... anything less would shock me (pun). But with the way things are going, expect $90k because $10k of that pricing will go toward Tesla buying ad-space on Twitter.
LOL! Not a fan of the "man-child", but I could be convinced to buy his company's truck. The light truck EV with the best range at the most competitive price (with best access to public charging) will end up getting my money - even if it means I'll be driving around in a stainless steel kitchen appliance look alike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
GM has said that they’re going to be losing money on all their EV’s until (at least) 2025. So yeah even at these prices it’s not like they’re in the black, the $80k is just them trying to keep the loss from being completely ruinous. Now 2025 is an interesting date as that’s when their roadmap is estimating a second generation Ultium chemistry will be available, in a 500-650mi max range.

So I think they’re depending on a new cheaper chemistry and volumes to drive profitability, but it will take a few years. In this light makes sense the Silverado releases to fleet first - as those customers don’t need the fancies or long ranges, and can get a lot done for less running costs with a WT EV.

Compare this to Ford which will only have their first real architecture in 2025 (the present Lightning is just based on the Focus design, which is the worst EV ever). I don’t consider the Cybertruck a real competitor, few traditional truck buyers (who buy a couple million per year) will touch it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
That's why prior to COVID and the rise of direct-to-consumer stuff, the only people paying MSRP at a traditional showroom were getting limited edition runs of special vehicles, price insensitive, or not paying attention.

There are figurative dollars on the hoods of cars to make deals work so long as the buyer is willing to negotiate. That's why first-degree price discrimination is so prevalent (and painful for buyers) in the auto industry. Dealerships buy from the manufacturer, and end-consumers buy from the dealers. This separation allows the dealers to be the shock absorber to put their capital to bear to manage sales/inventory-carrying while the automaker manages supply chain and manufacturing. But the harder the recession, the more inventory builds up in the channel. The automaker is ultimately responsible to flush the channel or else the dealers won't buy more cars.

A supply chain that isn't supplying or end assembly that isn't assembling will nuke the industry. So the automakers slam boatloads of cash on hoods to clear the glut of inventory building on dealer lots and airfields. This is very inefficient... if GM had it its way in a perfect world, it would simply reduce pricing in a transparent way to increase demand as necessary. Actually I take that back... if GM just lowered the price of its vehicles in a transparent way it would absolutely destroy the balance sheet of GM Financial... so yeah recessions are rough.

Anyway, GM has to allow every dealer to negotiate with more incentive dollars lowering net pricing. The customer won't know how much total incentives are on the table... but they will be initially enticed with some more advertised discounts. MSRP won't change, but what customers agree to will be lower during a recession. The dealerships have always argued they know how to extract the most value from the masses, so they believe this is the best way for them. But it sucks for consumers.
So your opinion on buying direct from Tesla, or Rivian, or Lordstown, or Canoo, who for the most part circumvent the dealer experience?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I truly believe this first year will only offer the higher trim levels. Then hopefully by the end of 2023 the lower trims will be revealed. Sooner would definitely be better though. As mentioned there should be a 50k, 60k, and 70k model. What they will come with is the question. If the numbers don't work out I can wait an get my second choice being the Blazer RS EV. I would keep my ICE Silverado as well. Its unfortunate that they are starting with the high trims which are way out of my price range. But we just have to wait and see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
132 Posts
So your opinion on buying direct from Tesla, or Rivian, or Lordstown, or Canoo, who for the most part circumvent the dealer experience?
I think the answer is complicated - depends on market conditions; the type of buyer you are; and what you're buying.

If you want the simple answer then ... yes the best customer experience comes from the direct to consumer (DTC such as Tesla, Rivian, Lucid). It's too bad ICE vehicles cannot be sold DTC.

Drilling down a bit... regardless of which brand you choose... if you are buying a super hot car (or there's a supply chain shortage) then paying MSRP is ideal where possible. Obviously YMMV with dealerships and markups, but that's up to the buyer to decide how to handle their money.

But if a recession hits and you want a sweet deal, go into a traditional dealership. The thing about first degree price discrimination at normal dealerships is that the possible benefit goes both ways. Sometimes the dealer makes more (like earlier this year with every dealer just jacking up prices). But other times first degree price discrimination allows the buyer to give up less through haggling than what flat pricing would have cost.

For the vast majority of transactions, the dealership is maximizing their margins above where they would be with flat pricing. Since the clever folks at the dealership settle on a price exactly with the mindset of determining what the buyer can/will pay. Hence why @EVTrucking hates the concept of additional dealer markup (ADM) since sometimes the price a dealer tries to charge is actually greater than MSRP. You know, since it's a free market and they want as much money as possible... some dealers will do what they think is right.

But on the flip side, for the more aggressive/haggling customer, they will get cars cheaper through a dealer network. Especially if it's a car that people aren't clamoring to buy or it's a recession.

Personally, I've worked too many years in auto... so I'm jaded because I know their stupid games inside and out. I hate how the old-school auto industry typically does their net pricing game at the showrooms. Or worse, they find what a buyer "can afford" and try to fit the most expensive ride into that budget. It's often a terri-bad experience or terri-bad outcome for many buyers. The reason is that every single little interaction with the typical car showroom is part of their script to maximize their margin. There is nothing done randomly or in the customer's better interest. It is a carefully curated experience to get someone excited enough to want to purchase; then the script goes to the next act whereby the dealers apply pain/stress to the customer to extract maximum dollars.

The monetization of their stress tolerance is a game few buyers want to partake in. But if you're willing to play the game, then it is the best game to play to save a bunch of cash when times get tough.

As a buyer who knows their stupid antics, I can absolutely piss the hell out of the dealer selling me a car by using their own tricks against them. Which is funny, because they absolutely hate it when you try to reverse tactics on them. They like to squeeze max money out of buyers, but I like to squeeze max car out of the seller. Like I said, I'm jaded so I sort of view car buying as a dumb-azz challenge to see how much I can piss them off to get the price as low as possible. And for the right price during an economic downturn, they'll still work with you to close a sale. You will not get this flexibility to maximize your own "margins" by going DTC.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top